By Jeff H.
I have been debating whether or not to write about this for some time now. This site is meant to be fun and entertaining, however as we get older there are some bigger issues weighing on many of our minds. After many hours of deliberating, I’ve decided to keep it short and to the point. Some people will disagree with what I have to say, but it needs to be said. As some of you are aware, our country is in the midst of a crossroads. Our foreign relations have never been worse, many corporations and special interests have seized control over policy decisions and many people are still starving and without proper care, just to name a few problems.
In an earlier discussion, many people voiced their opinion on where this country is and where they believe it is heading. I agree with all of you in saying, I will not raise a family in any other country then my own. This country has given me a wonderful life, but I have also realized that some people have not been so fortunate. To deny them a chance because they’re the less fortunate is something I am unable and unwilling to do. With the upcoming election approaching faster and faster I encourage everyone to get involved. This could be one of the most important elections are country has seen in a very long time. Our generation has had a lack of leadership since we have been alive. We have seen a father and son team throw us into two wars in Iraq, and a sex scandal that one man could not escape. It is time the American people took their government back. America needs a rebirth and once again become a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Instead of separating ourselves from world view, come together and realize there are problems we need to solve, problems that must be solved together, not as individuals.
I know there are others that feel the same as I do, and also feel that this country, although still young, can get through this. One man can drag us through the mud; another man can cleanse us and take this country back. In our short history we have had two world wars, fought for civil rights, fought for women’s rights, pulled troops out of Vietnam, all because the American people got so fed up with the system their voices were finally heard. It’s time to be heard again….
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/eoq2wrap
Wednesday, July 4, 2007
Take America Back
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9 comments:
well some finally did it. they broke into overt politics. which is fine, because Jeff is right, there are bigger issues going on around us and they shouldn't be ignored.
the problem, as waters has noted in the past, is that everyone already
has an opinion, and they wont change that opinion no matter what's written here.
so take a step back before you savage or praise jeffs article and think.
please keep it civil.
i do have to throw in 3 points though. i'm consider myself slightly leaning left, but above all, i'd like to consider myself a rational person who likes to break down each argument and issue as it comes. I love those 'fallacy' things that you learn about in critical thinking and speech class.
http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/
handouts/fallacies.html
- broad generalizations about 'the less fortunate' are tough for me to swallow. certainly everyone can agree that some people in this country do not have the same opportunities for success as others. its an injustice, it sucks and it flies in the face of everything that this country stands for. but I'm not convinced that democrats and fix it or really care about the issue anymore than anyone else. it's tough.
i agree that foreign relations are terrible. i hate the fact that everyone hates America in other countries. it actually bothers me. but what bothers me more is that many Americans just dismiss them as crazy foreigners. why do they hate us so much? I'm sure the answer isn't insane as some people would like to think.
also, i personally believe that whomever we elect as president, it won't get any worse. politicians on both sides of the aisle have taken note of bushs disastrous political moves, and in the future, they will be better. i feel like theres no way that someone more coked out and more conservative than gw can win the white house.
Mike I appreciate the comment, and in response I tried to stay vague on purpose. I do not want people discussing whether or not I got my facts right. I want to hear how they feel about the direction of this country, not my writing style.
The reason for discussing politics is not to change peoples mind, it is to hear what other people believe. To see who is truly passionate about an issue and will defend what they believe is the best course of action for all. The problem arises when it turns into an attack, because people can't defend what they believe so they resort to name calling.
I am really interested to hear what people have to say. Where they believe this country is heading, good or bad, and what they think can be done about it.
Politics is a real passion of mine, and I love discussing it with smart and rational people. From the smart and witty posts and comments I can tell this is a great place to discuss politics.
I have a far more optimistic view of our generation of Americans and our future. I don’t feel we have a great societal battle to fight. I am thankful for those that spoke up to fight for women’s suffrage and against racial discrimination. And, no, I didn’t include those that spoke out against the war in Vietnam, because protesters did very little to bring troops home from Vietnam. Without going into too much detail…when President Nixon delivered his “silent majority” address to the nation he said, “North Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the United States. Only American can do that.” Despite the harshness of his words his approval rating shot to 68%…the highest since his inauguration. Troops didn’t actually come home until 1973 at least two years after the last major Vietnam demonstrations. The demonstrations stopped because college students were no longer drafted and no longer had to watch out for their own assess. Also, I am not really a big fan of the genocide of millions that happened after we left. (Sorry for that tangent)
People in America are living far better than ever before. People in America are not starving. We live longer. We have more technologies that make our lives easier and better. Our houses are bigger. And no, it is not just the rich that are doing better.
Our foreign relations have been worse. Western Europe has always disliked its more successful younger brother. Middle Eastern Islamic countries have always hated us. Muslim terrorist consistently attacked us before GW was president.
So, yes I am confused when people call for drastic change and ”taking back America.” When “enlightened” college students and 20-somethings of our generation call for revolution it screams of increasing one’s self-importance. If refusing to cut your dreadlocks until there is peace in the Middle East makes you fell better about yourself, go ahead. If signing an Internet petition to end “neo-corporate-feudalism” helps you sleep better at night, great. But, don’t frown on me for not seeking out the self-gratifying-social-causes merit badge.
For years I have been jaded to efforts to increase the “societal good.” Recently reading Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged probably didn’t help that. It is not often acknowledged that the global extreme poverty rate is about a third of what it was in 1970. Why is that? It’s because there is no societal-good-seeking group that can take credit for it. Southeast Asia is largely responsible for this decrease. Did the hundreds of millions of people no longer in extreme poverty in Southeast Asia gain wealth because of increasing benevolence of the governments of these countries? Was this poverty greatly minimized from benefit concerts, emotionally moving documentaries, celebrity press conferences, or colorful rubber bracelets? Absolutely not. Globalization and the opening of markets have let these people make their own economic pies bigger. This lack of acknowledgement shows the disinterest of results from those “concerned revolutionaries.”
So beware the vanity of societal change. As Shelby Steele once said,
“Since the social victim has been oppressed by society, he comes to feel that his individual life will be improved more by changes in society than by his own initiative. Without realizing it, he makes society rather than himself the agent of change. The power he finds in his victimization may lead him to collective action against society, but it also encourages passivity within the sphere of his personal life.”
yeah, Objectivism!
With all that said, Jeff is right. If we are not happy with what is going on, get involved with the Republican, Democratic, Independence, or Green Party. I have worked for the Republican Party the last three election cycles. It has been very rewarding. I have been working for a government of the people, by the people, and for the people by making the people’s power greater and the government’s power over the people weaker.
In a quick response before I begin my fourth of July celebration….Soup you have a very interesting outlook on the world. I found it very interesting that you decided to quote a man like Richard Nixon. I think he did a good job humiliating the United States with Watergate, he can’t blame that one on the public. Also, I struggle with the idea of serving the greater good by sending troops into Vietnam to prevent genocide and save them from the clutches of communism, could their have been another motive. Was that the same reason we bombed innocent civilians in Panama, burning over ¼ of the city and killing upwards of 5,000 civilians and leaving 25,000 homeless. To save them from an evil drug trafficking, double agent spy who was working for the Soviets? That is what our political leaders of the time gave for their military action. In Fact, Manuel Noriega was a democratically elected official by his people. He promised to continue the work of his “assassinated” friends Omar Torrijos and Jaime Roldos. To anyone unfamiliar with the Panama Canal it is probably one of the most expensive and important real estate in all South America. Jaime Roldos was another democratically elected official who launched an all out attack on U.S. oil companies. Roldos worked with president Carter to give the panama canal back to Panama, as president Carter was looking for solutions to reduce U.S. dependence on oil, even having solar panels built on the white house. Then American cowboy movie star, Ronal Reagan came into power (immediately removing the solar panels from the white house), with his entourage of George H.W. Bush, George Schulz, Casper Weinberger, Richard Cheney, Richard Helms and Robert McNamara, to anyone unfamiliar with this cast of characters do a little research you will find some interesting stuff. Reagan, an actor, was a perfect fit for following orders of men who went back and forth between corporate CEO’s, world bank boards (even head of World Bank), and finally into the halls of politics. While there former employers were all of a sudden in a position to make billions. Anyways back to Roldos, after defying these men and refusing to give the canal back he died in an “accidental” plane crash. Two months later Omar Torrijos, an army officer, who dedicated the rest of his life to uphold Roldos ideals died in another “accidental” plane crash. That then brings us to Manuel Noriega, who also planned to hold up Roldos ideals. After being labeled a drug trafficker and enemy of his people by the U.S. media, this elected official found himself on a plane to Miami in handcuffs after his countryside had been bombed from above. He was tried and convicted for crimes against the United States on his foreign soil. As the world was outraged by this blatant violation of international law, the media did as good of a job covering world politics as they do now. What we don’t see outside of our borders can’t hurt us. The U.S. reason for the bombing Panama was to stop a drug trafficking monster who was an enemy to the people, needless to say after this Reagan had control of the canal. But what does this have to say about Vietnam? I’ll leave that up to you….. Those are simple facts……
Also, what do you mean by extreme poverty? First of all I’ve signed no petition and don’t have dreadlocks, but I still don’t sleep at night. Just because we pay someone $5 a month when they use to receive 0 does not make it ok. Going from the slave trade in the south to the slave trade overseas is not a step forward. I would hardly use the world wealth when describing Southeast Asia. I have been to Southeast Asia and recommend that you travel there if you think they are well off…
I am not pushing any political party on any person. Money and greed are not partisan politics, but there are a few out there that can recognize the need for a change and get the ball rolling.
You missed my point on my Nixon quote. The quote was simply showing the beliefs of the “silent majority” that undermine the effectiveness of Vietnam protesters.
Ah, Central and South America…
Liberals with no sense of history tend to bring it up as a criticism against an activist American foreign policy. I differ in belief with Neocons in the their promotion of “nation building,” but we actually did do a very good job picking the true democratic sides in skirmishes in Latin America. The last 20 years have been the most peaceful years they have ever experienced. I’m not really interested in dwelling on the conspiracy theories involved in creating peace in Latin America. Again, I am concerned with results (even if they are not self gratifying.) I wish peace could always exist without war. But it can’t. Oh, and since I have been to Central America I can also pull out the you-should-go-there-because-I’ve-been-there-and-you-have-to-believe-everything-I say-about-the-region-card.
And, I have no idea what you mean about Vietnam. Let me guess we went there for oil too? We went in to contain communism. It didn’t work and a lot of people were slaughtered. I didn’t want to get into a discussion about our battle strategy for Vietnam. I only wanted to express disdain for former Vietnam protesters that things they did the world a great favor. I too thought hippies were cool until I went with my dad (a Vietnam Vet) to the memorial in Washington D.C. and saw him look up the names on the wall of his buddies that died. That was the first time anyone explained to me what happened to the South Vietnamese and Cambodians after the Americans left. That was the first time I heard of the resentment for Vietnam soldiers that came home and would not renounce their country.
Extreme poverty is generally living on a US dollar a day or less adjusted for purchasing power parity.
Liberals always talk about wanting to decrease global poverty. But, when it actually happends they marginalize it. Yeah, not everyone in South East Asia is wearing Nikes, but not as many of them are starving to death either! I guess I am just so darn optimistic that I look at that as progress. Liberals don’t look at that as progress because it was not…gasp…done by benevolence.
Again…sorry…I am probably reading too much Ayn Rand
I know conservatives are a minority on this blog. But, I hope you are all able to not define me by my politics. With that said feel free to respond and I’m happy to talk politics anytime. Thanks for your passion and intelligence in discussion, Jeff.. Happy Independence Day everyone! It turns out tomorrow is a work day…and that makes me regret these last 6 beers.
Problems with this country that shouldn't exist:
Credit Card companies charge up to 34% finance charges on people who miss payments. most charge over 20% for people with below average credit. Many banks charge 30 dollar overdraft fees per overdraft, and charge several fees that are completely unnecessary (fees for using foreign ATMs, charging fees to cash checks to people that do not have accounts, etc.)
Most people who go to check cashing establishments only go their because they do not have sufficient credit to open a checking account, so they are stuck paying extremely large fees to cash their checks. Some check cashing places can charge up to 20% to cash a check.
The worse a person's credit is, the higher the finance charges willl be for mortgages and personal/business loans.
People who are late on their payments for their car loan, credit card, student loans, mortgage etc. do not miss these payments because they just don't feel like paying it, they miss them because they are going through financial hardships and simply don't have the money. So why does it make sense to charge people higher rates, who can't afford to pay the rates they already have?
If Credit Card companies could only charge a maximum of 10 or 15 percent for finance charges, they would still make billions in profits, and many people would not have to spend the next 30 years paying off that credit card. If banks could only charge 10 or 15 dollars for overdrafts instead of 30 or more, they would still make a very sizeable profit, and it would be easier for the poor to recover from these smaller overdrafts.
I'm sick and tired of political leaders spending their time and energy bitching and arguing about retarded issues that will never change (such as abortion, stem cells, right to bear arms, etc.) instead of the highway robbery that most banks and credit card companies are getting away with, while making people who are having difficult times, get further and further into debt. Remember the other year when Exxon/Mobil jacked the price of gas to record prices, because their was a "shortage in the reserves", and they needed to raise the prices? Why is it that we never noticed that the reserves were low, and oil wasn't hard to come by, yet they made something like a 20 BILLION DOLLAR PROFIT IN ONE QUARTER?
If our politicians would regulate oil companies, credit cards, banks, cash checking establishments, etc., millions of americans who do face financial hardship and poverty would end up better off ten fold. Are there politicans being bought off by corporations such as the above listed? Well I'm not even going to get into that one here. I've gone on enough.
(sorry for the other deleted ones, I should've thought about proof reading before i hit publish).
I will only respond to the one paragraph in soups thoughtfull (and long) diatribe.
"People in America are living far better than ever before."
37.0 million people are under the poverty line. (Family of four, $20,794 in 2007)
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/overview.html
Even the creator of the poverty threshold, Mollie Orshansky, said that the figures they use are on the low estimate.
http://www.ssa.gov/history/orshansky.html
"People in America are not starving."
Well about 12% are. And 26.1 percent of African Americans are.
"We live longer."
We are 42nd in life expectancy, and it is growing at a slower rate than other countries.
http://www.os-connect.com/pop/p1.htm
"We have more technologies that make our lives easier and better."
Technologies not necessarily (and often not) developed in the US.
"Our houses are bigger."
Uhhh, yeah I guess.
"And no, it is not just the rich that are doing better."
The top one-fifth of American families accounted for 47.2 percent of the nation's income, while the bottom one-fifth earn just 4.2 percent of the nation's income, and the poorest 40 percent accounted for only 14 percent of income. This has gap has GROWN (believe it) in the last 20 years.
Other than that I agree that I love America, hell, yesterday (7/4)was my birthday. I just think if we all think the US is a utopia then the America will never improve.
Soup says,“Ah, Central and South America…Liberals with no sense of history tend to bring it up as a criticism against an activist American foreign policy.” That is an interesting stance on the issue. I can see you have worked on a campaign committee because you have that sense of denial, keeping with the whole, “you can’t prove it” philosophy has done you very well over the years. Everything about Panama is the undisputed truth, but what do I know I’m just a tree hugging hippy. No liberals have ever gone to war, it is only you “enlightened” conservatives that-are-the-only-ones-to-have-had-a-family-member-fight-and-know-what-really-happeneds-on-the-battlefield.
It is a very optimistic view you have on world politics. Because South East Asia is not starving to death, we have made progress? Let me think of a way where everyone has a roof over their heads and, as you put it, “are not starving to death.” There is one system that comes to mind. Do you think that system, that we have fought so hard against, would really be progress? Putting children to work in sweatshops is ok because after all they still have food….
A Quick overview of the potential in Vietnam (that was unclear to some)….not a lot has changed over the years
According to http://www.projectsvietnam.com/
Key Industries In Project Vietnam
Building & Construction
With new urban development projects and the strong support from the Prime Minister to build industrial parks till 2010, Vietnam’s construction materials sector is anticipated to grow at an average of 15% and building sectors at 8-9%. The development of industrial parks will continue to attract investments in the next 4 years.
Electricity
Vietnam’s rapid and extensive modernisation and industrialisation stresses the demand for electricity. The Vietnamese Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment encourages sustainable development and efficient provision of energy by implementing 11 projects and six measures in this sector from now till 2015. Alongside are 74 planned power projects and a $28.8 million project to improve energy use.
Bridges & Railroad
Vietnam Railway Corporation has budgeted US$38.9 million into upgrading rail infrastructure and signal systems. Passenger rail has increased about 10% per year over the past five years, and the increased in freight transportation requires massive investments into railroads.
Airports
Ministry of Transport has plans to upgrade and expand airport networks to meet up with the growth in passenger demand, Vietnam aims to develop 6 more major international airports and upgrade the quality of airport services.
Telecommunications
Vietnamese government seeks to encourage new market entrants and increased competition into the telecommunications industries. The Vietnam Post and Telecommunications (VNPT) is pumping US$12.8 million into broadband development and internet services across the nation, and fostering joint ventures with foreign operators.
Information Technology
The IT sector is identified to as one of the strongest market growth at 30% annually. Global businesses penetrating Vietnam is driving the demand for up-to-date information technology products and IT applications systems.
Oil & Gas
Crude oil is one of Vietnam’s leading exports, estimated reserves at 270 million tonnes. The country has potential gas reserves of 1,300 billion cubit metres. By reducing taxes and fees, the government desires to boost interest in exploration and development of oil and gas processing industries. Grab hold of the incentives and tap into Vietnam’s reserves!
To some of you that have been oblivious to U.S. foreign policy over the years (and yes Soup you are right it did start before G.W. Bush), we have made a killing in undeveloped countries giving them overly optimistic economic forecasts on how their countries can improve by investing in commercial development. To those unfamiliar with economics, statistics on countries can be easily manipulated. But to a sad few, they have convinced themselves that all economic growth benefits humankind, and that the greater the growth, the more widespread the benefits. They have persuaded themselves, and one another, that people who excel at stoking the fires of economic growth should be rewarded, while those born at the fringes are available for exploitation. Because, they are as before mentioned by my friend Soup, “not starving to death.” Anyway, the U.S. will give these countries billion dollar loans with extremely high interest rates with the stipulation that only American contractors such as World Bank (once headed by Robert McNamara as before mentioned) Harken Energy (where G W Bush, our current president sat on the board), Enron, Haliburton(I think you know these two), MAIN, and Bechtel(where George Schultz and Casper Weinberger, of the once before A-list characters mentioned, sat as senior officers) just to name a few, will be put in charge of operating and constructing these facilities. To put it in plain English the money never leaves the country, but we still demand it to be paid. When countries can simply not afford to pay, because our predictions were so overly inflated, we simply collect in UN votes, military backing, or OIL.
To me it is more then simply this ridiculous argument….it is the well being of this nation that I love. We are the most powerful and wealthiest empire, but have outrageously high rates of suicide, drug abuse, divorce, child molestation, rape and murder. It would be great if we could just blame it on one conspiracy but we can not. This corporatocracy is ourselves, we make it happen, which is why so many of us find it hard to oppose it. We are the ones with 4 cars in our driveways, closets full of clothes we do not wear, wanting the biggest diamonds, or the newest flat screen televisions. It comes down to each person looking inside of themselves and wanting to make a difference. Wanting to make a change for the better and until that happens nothing will change. I can sit here and push the problems off on others, but in reality all these things have happened because of the lifestyles in which we choose to live. We need to take America back and it starts with evaluating ourselves…..
It is too bad that conservatives are not very well represented on AH! because it makes for very lopsided arguments at times. As a card carrying member myself I would like to offer a little support for soup. Reading some of the posts contained within this discussion it is hard to believe the authors could claim to be anything but FAR to the left. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, but I find the farther a person is in one direction or the other the less and less rational statements and thoughts become part of their musings. I do consider myself a conservative but not one so devout that I cant even listen to a liberals views without freaking out in response to let them know how and why they are wrong. Now I know haasertime is a left winger whether he wants to admit it or not but he makes some valid points and he makes them in a fashion that is not berating of those who oppose his thoughts.
Now to the reason for my post (I told myself and Mike that I was going to stay out of this one but after reading some of the posted comments it was just too hard). The nation of America alright, despite what many liberals would like you to believe. The problem with the way things are run around here starts and ends with the media. The majority of the media, from news casts to newspapers, is run by the far left. So, very obviously 90% of the information anyone in our nation gets who has a TV, radio or can read is that of a liberal or someone working for a liberal boss or system. This tends to distort many news stories, commentary and items or events deemed to be “newsworthy.” Magnifying this effect is that 97.424% of Hollywood is so far to the left they can’t even see the line anymore. With all of the airtime and print these weirdoes receive their views are splattered and beaten into and all over the general public’s homes and daily lives.
I will never say that Bush is perfect, or even that he has been an above average president, but the fact remains that he came into office right before one of the most tragic events in our nations history (9/11) and having to deal with all of the effects following something like that could crush any leader, especially one in control of the most powerful and influential nation on earth. The liberal media will have you believe that our nation is crumbling from within and it is only a matter of time before we fall off the face of the earth unless some amazing democrat saves us all next November. But listening every single day we turn on our TV’s to a bunch of bumbling wanna-be politicians talk about how we’re heading down the shitter is having a much more negative effect itself then anyone realizes. What we need is for sides to start working together and talking through solutions instead of just sitting around and berating the opposing party for their particular beliefs, thoughts or ideas.
Sure there are some things that need to change, and that will always be the case because we live in a world that isn’t perfect, but the fact remains that living in a free and democratic nation like we do we always have the chance to solve those problems ourselves if we work at it. And for anyone that wants to throw out a million stats proving America is no good in comparison to 50 other nations I can not see any point to that unless you are scouting out a possible move for yourself. Now-a-days you can find any stat you want anywhere proving one thing or another. Problems are part of life, and they are part of politics, but in America we have the opportunity to do our part to help make positive changes, I just don’t think one Democratic candidate is going to be the singular answer. Unless we change the way our media is run and make sure our news shows, newspapers and overall conversations and arguments are more well-rounded and unbiased, the kind of positive transformation this nation needs will never take place.
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